"See not who said it, but see what is said."
—Ali ibn Talib
"Exposing blasphemy is not tantamount to blasphemy."
—Sheikh Sa’adi
"The Truth is lost in nonsense
This Nation is lost in tradition."
—Allama Muhammad Iqbal
*********************************
Billy:
As-salaamu Alaokom. This I-log is in response to your #263 Posted by bhs75 on July 7, 2009 10:16:54 pm.
I’m very hopeful that one day you will reach a dangerously correct conclusion: the root cause of our problems is the plethora of dubious Ahadith that we’ve accepted as CORRECT. To question this literature, that has reached us through debauched Christian-Jewish sources and half-Muslims, is to question God Almighty. Can we violate the Qur’anic injunctions but never challenge the Ahadith? What Kufr! THIS is how the debauched mullah has worked his wonders over the centuries, and THIS is how the divisive Western powers play us off against each other; a very simple formula really.
As for your painful memories while memorizing the Qur’an, God will thrash the one who thrashed you. Merciless are the beards, and narrow is their outlook towards life and God.
How many Ahadith (i.e. sayings, occurrences, events) Mr Bukhari quoted and how many he rejected after performing ‘wuzu’ and offering two ‘rakahs’ is not my concern. What disturbs one to the core is that we have copied the Christians (Gospels-Bible) and the Jews (Torah) every step of the way in this deviation (from the Qur’an’s message, which is uncorrupted and exits in its original form).
The last Messenger did not invent four Madhabs, men whom we call Imams did, and their followers did, and now we continue to do so shamelessly. Do you know that I don’t label myself as Sunni (don’t laugh Shi’a brothers), and I’d not wish to be called a Shi’a (because out of the Qur’an’s eleven references to this term, ten are for erring stubborn folks who are divisive). So what am I? Well, I am what Prophet Ibrahim said about himself. And what is THAT label? Research the reference now and be amazed.
Nearly two dozen categories exist for Ahadith, while the maximum for the Qur’an’s statements are two: ‘Muttashabihaat’ and ‘Muhkamaat’. That’s all! Now, who has the time except driven men to see what THIS means? Hence, most scholars of yesterday and today fit the description given in the Qur’an:
(9:31) They have taken their rabbis and their monks - as well as the Christ, son of Mary - for their lords beside God, although they had been bidden to worship none but the One God, save whom there is no deity: the One who is utterly remote, in His limitless glory, from anything to which they may ascribe a share in His divinity!
It is through such blind obedience that men ruin their souls. How remarkably true God’s Word is?
Do you think an ordinary Muslim can stand up and question a mullah delivering a sermon on torture in the grave or detailed extra-Quranic descriptions of what we’ll face on Resurrection Day? When once I did, the mosque’s imam (an educated man) immediately clarified in this manner:
‘The traditions we quote come from ‘Israelia’ (Jewish sources, commentaries, traditions) and from Biblical sources too. Whatever we feel agrees with Islamic views, we accept.’
What a preposterous admission of guilt! Now the most debauched ones do come from the Jewish traditions, and which (woe be to those who copied them) are now part of our CORRECT Ahadith literature. The most outlandish and supernatural Ahadith come from one famous companion of the Prophet, and whose narrations are often labelled as 'ahad' because nobody else reported them! Who is qualified to be called a ‘sahabi’, is a topic that we will not touch upon now.
And as far as the arrival of the promised Messiah is concerned, you may wish to read Dr Shabbir Ahmed’s WHEN IS THE MESSIAH COMING to laugh at the whole concoction.
Get to work NOW! Don’t wait for anybody because God has not even hinted towards that in His Word. Either believe in Him or in the mullah; the choice is simple. Be guided aright or face total spiritual ruin.
"If you see someone praying regularly, you can call him a worshipper, but you may not attest to his piety."—Umar Farooq, the great second Caliph of Islam
"Whenever a Hadīth (quotation) is presented to you in my name, verify it with the Qur’ān. If it agrees with the Qur’ān accept it and if it is in conflict, discard it."—Muhammad (Al-Tibiyan wat Tabayyen, vol II, p. 28)
—Ali ibn Talib
"Exposing blasphemy is not tantamount to blasphemy."
—Sheikh Sa’adi
"The Truth is lost in nonsense
This Nation is lost in tradition."
—Allama Muhammad Iqbal
*********************************
Billy:
As-salaamu Alaokom. This I-log is in response to your #263 Posted by bhs75 on July 7, 2009 10:16:54 pm.
I’m very hopeful that one day you will reach a dangerously correct conclusion: the root cause of our problems is the plethora of dubious Ahadith that we’ve accepted as CORRECT. To question this literature, that has reached us through debauched Christian-Jewish sources and half-Muslims, is to question God Almighty. Can we violate the Qur’anic injunctions but never challenge the Ahadith? What Kufr! THIS is how the debauched mullah has worked his wonders over the centuries, and THIS is how the divisive Western powers play us off against each other; a very simple formula really.
As for your painful memories while memorizing the Qur’an, God will thrash the one who thrashed you. Merciless are the beards, and narrow is their outlook towards life and God.
How many Ahadith (i.e. sayings, occurrences, events) Mr Bukhari quoted and how many he rejected after performing ‘wuzu’ and offering two ‘rakahs’ is not my concern. What disturbs one to the core is that we have copied the Christians (Gospels-Bible) and the Jews (Torah) every step of the way in this deviation (from the Qur’an’s message, which is uncorrupted and exits in its original form).
The last Messenger did not invent four Madhabs, men whom we call Imams did, and their followers did, and now we continue to do so shamelessly. Do you know that I don’t label myself as Sunni (don’t laugh Shi’a brothers), and I’d not wish to be called a Shi’a (because out of the Qur’an’s eleven references to this term, ten are for erring stubborn folks who are divisive). So what am I? Well, I am what Prophet Ibrahim said about himself. And what is THAT label? Research the reference now and be amazed.
Nearly two dozen categories exist for Ahadith, while the maximum for the Qur’an’s statements are two: ‘Muttashabihaat’ and ‘Muhkamaat’. That’s all! Now, who has the time except driven men to see what THIS means? Hence, most scholars of yesterday and today fit the description given in the Qur’an:
(9:31) They have taken their rabbis and their monks - as well as the Christ, son of Mary - for their lords beside God, although they had been bidden to worship none but the One God, save whom there is no deity: the One who is utterly remote, in His limitless glory, from anything to which they may ascribe a share in His divinity!
It is through such blind obedience that men ruin their souls. How remarkably true God’s Word is?
Do you think an ordinary Muslim can stand up and question a mullah delivering a sermon on torture in the grave or detailed extra-Quranic descriptions of what we’ll face on Resurrection Day? When once I did, the mosque’s imam (an educated man) immediately clarified in this manner:
‘The traditions we quote come from ‘Israelia’ (Jewish sources, commentaries, traditions) and from Biblical sources too. Whatever we feel agrees with Islamic views, we accept.’
What a preposterous admission of guilt! Now the most debauched ones do come from the Jewish traditions, and which (woe be to those who copied them) are now part of our CORRECT Ahadith literature. The most outlandish and supernatural Ahadith come from one famous companion of the Prophet, and whose narrations are often labelled as 'ahad' because nobody else reported them! Who is qualified to be called a ‘sahabi’, is a topic that we will not touch upon now.
And as far as the arrival of the promised Messiah is concerned, you may wish to read Dr Shabbir Ahmed’s WHEN IS THE MESSIAH COMING to laugh at the whole concoction.
Get to work NOW! Don’t wait for anybody because God has not even hinted towards that in His Word. Either believe in Him or in the mullah; the choice is simple. Be guided aright or face total spiritual ruin.
"If you see someone praying regularly, you can call him a worshipper, but you may not attest to his piety."—Umar Farooq, the great second Caliph of Islam
"Whenever a Hadīth (quotation) is presented to you in my name, verify it with the Qur’ān. If it agrees with the Qur’ān accept it and if it is in conflict, discard it."—Muhammad (Al-Tibiyan wat Tabayyen, vol II, p. 28)
8 comments:
Posts from CHOWK:
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#5 tahir July 08, 2009 07:16
Billy:
For now just find out what Prophet Ibrahim said about who he was; forget about Syed/non-Syed for now.
Peace.
#4 tahir July 08, 2009 07:15
Maj:
Knowing me since God/Ram knows when, you should not have asked me such a question ("You have written all this or reproduced what someone else has written?").
Please check my record to verify if I've ever said anything contrary to this. Also check if this text is copied from somewhere.
What you must tell me is whether you were impressed, depressed, or shocked after reading this I-log.
Regards.
#2 bhs75 July 08, 2009 03:34
Like you, I also do not consider myself sunni or shia, my family is from (sunni) syed sect but i never use syed with my name but then if I pray with my arms open they say dude is a shia and if I pray with my arms closed they say he is a sunni. it's a riddle for me. but mostly I am praying with my arms closed & not bothered much.
#1 bhs75 July 08, 2009 03:22
walaukum assalam,
yup it all make sense. thank you
so there is no 2nd coming? :) I will try to find this book you ref. to.
Posts from CHOWK:
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#9 tahir July 08, 2009 13:30
Miss Mariposa:
Thank you for your genuine interest, the reply, and the candid remarks. I refuse to inflate my ego for a take off!
I find the English translations attempted by converts a bit more open and unbiased compared with the Urdu ones which are covered with the dust of excessive tafseer and footnotes, and which the general public interprets as 'it is all written in the Qur'an!'
I have nearly twenty software translations, and some more as hard copies. Some I've just consulted but not read completely. Only one remains my English favourite, and against which I check others for accuracy and consistency.
Will you be willing to try an English translation?
Regards.
#8 mariposa July 08, 2009 13:03
Tahir (sir)
I have two copies with translation, the one that I read first is Ashraf Ali Tahnwi's translation.(I have some reservations) And its from Lahore. The other copy that I have is a Saudi publication and has a little simpler Urdu translation. (However because of the fact that KSA controls even what should be said in Juma prayers I was a little skeptical but then I studied Arabic- because I wanted to learn what is actually written in the book-so I am fine with this translation).
It will be great if you could recommend.
I am just a beginner so basics first :)
I did read quite a lot of your interacts and ilogs and since you know that you speak the truth I will just be reiterating a fact.
M.
#7 tahir July 08, 2009 12:17
Miss Mariposa:
Thanks very much for your positive nods. Even if one person in this world began thinking for himself (or herself) reading what I wrote truthfully and based on my own research, I would be a very happy man.
It appears that you've already taken the single most important step towards true enlightenment. May I ask whose Qur'an translation have you read?
'Tahir sir'? Thanks for the instant knighthood Miss Mariposa!
There are many real windmills that I must strike at. Chowq bans me repeatedly because this is all they can do to silence those who see the globalist-Illuminati-satanist agenda very clearly. They don't want anti-Mrikan sentiments here because their masters continue to pour the Greenback into Muslim lands for de-stabilization. Goddamned agitators, all of them.
Truth stands on its own two feet, falsehood not even on one!
Peace.
#6 mariposa July 08, 2009 08:07
I couldn't agree more.
My experience of finding my balance with religion was a bumpy ride. The journey however has just begun.
I was horrified when I realized how many “bida’as” (innovations as best I can put it in English)are followed by an average Pakistani Muslim woman.
As you said, so many unauthentic Ahadees, dubious references, it was quite a struggle to separate rights from wrongs. Starting from nazar niaz, kul, barsi, “right” way of praying, tasbeehat, wazaif, khatam-e-Quran "functions" It was mind boggling.
And then I decided to read the Quran with translation. from the beginning till the end(not only sticking to the weekly recitation to sura Yaseen, or sura Rehman that's commonly practiced by the women I know) Many things are so much more clearer. Still struggling and still searching. But it is so much better.
PS: thanks for the ilog Tahir(sir). How come we can't see it on the homepage
Posts from CHOWK:
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#14 tahir July 08, 2009 14:48
Excellent, wordless man (Goonga)!
Yes, you've won a two-way ticket to San Jose for a visit to Chowq's boss: Dr Safwan Shah!
Yes, Prophet Ibrahim says (as quoted in the Qu'ran) that he is 'a HANEEF and a MUSLIM'.
'Haneef' appears 12 times in the Quran; eight times in reference to Prophet Ibrahim, who is the only person to have been explicitly identified with the term. He is mentioned in the Qur'an as a Haneef (a prophet predating the Judaic and Christian traditions) who turned away from polytheism and pantheism for monotheism.
“ "Ibrahim was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but a 'Hanif', but he was an upright man who had surrendered (to God), one who is not among the idol-worshipers." Qur'an 3:67
The term appears in ayahs 2:135, 3:95, 4:125. Verse 10:105 indicates the Prophet Muhammad as being one of the hanif as well.
The term is from the Arabic root h-n-f meaning:
To incline, to decline" (Lane 1893) from the Syriac root of the same meaning. The Hanīfiyyah is the law of Abraham; the verb tahannafa means "to turn away from (idolatry)", with a secondary and subsequent meaning of "to become circumcised".
In the verse 3:27 of the Quran it has also been translated as "upright person" and outside the Quran as "to incline towards a right state or tendency".
Peace.
#13 goonga July 08, 2009 14:15
"For now just find out what Prophet Ibrahim said about who he was"
Hanif?
#12 mariposa July 08, 2009 14:13
Sounds great.
#11 tahir July 08, 2009 14:11
Miss Mariposa:
How would you like a Qur'an translation in English with:
1) A built-in dictionary
2) A comparison of traditional and other interpretations
3) Myth-busting exegesis-like footnotes
4) Almost no Ahadith to muddle up the meanings
5) Cross-refernces to explain subtle shades of meanings
How about it?
#10 mariposa July 08, 2009 13:48
Tahir(sir)
Yes, please.
I never read tafseer. That's a thumb rule. Urdu I chose because it has a direct connection with Arabic.
I started following Bilal Phillips for a while but heard from some people that he is a Saudi sponsored Mullah. I lost interest in following anyone to seek guidance. Hence the attempt to self-learn from the book.
PS: no comments of mine are pretentious enough to be directed at egos. And did I say that title of this ilog is brilliant.
Thanks for responding.
Best
M.
Posts from CHOWK:
---------------------------
#25 tahir July 09, 2009 13:03
Billy:
Pickthall's translation is available as 'freeware'; just search and you'll get the translation.
Try typing 'Marmaduke Pickthall,freew are' into a search engine. If you have problems with that, send me a message.
Regards.
PS: Many sites are blocked in Arab countries. You're lucky you don't live in the KSA!
#24 bhs75 July 09, 2009 00:40
Got it !!! 25 pages only? sure about that?
#23 bhs75 July 09, 2009 00:16
Got it !!! 25 pages only? sure about that?
#22 tahir July 09, 2009 00:07
Billy:
What is NOT backed by the KSA these days? Remember that many transalations do NOT take into account the times we live in whereas very few speak of the DNA and other scientific discoveries, and how what we call Nature is actually God's Law!
Is not Junagarhi's work in classical Urdu written many years agao?
Tafseer's are opinions of scholars who see what THEY wish to see in God's Book. Be careful if you must read them.
Regards.
#21 bhs75 July 09, 2009 00:00
Got it !!! 25 pages only? sure about that?
#20 bhs75 July 08, 2009 23:56
& help me out with "When Is The Messiah Coming?", the links are all blocked from uae it seems, where can i find it?
#19 tahir July 08, 2009 23:52
Miss Leenah:
We shall return to comment on Mr. Abdullah Y. Ali's leanings and that subtle change in the re-translating Surah Nur at a later date.
My observation is that our man, Dr Asad, is the best kept secret of Pakistan--or rather the entire Muslim block.
Chowq--where only the interacters' paths meet--with no help from the management, of course.
#18 bhs75 July 08, 2009 23:50
T-man,
you got Pickthall's translation in electronic format somewhere?
arabs like "ibn-e-katheer" alot, I have not read it (cause its all arabic) but arabs,they love it !!!
the other translation available here by Molana Jonagahri, I am sure you know his name, but I feel it's saudi backed as well.
#17 leenah July 08, 2009 22:23
aah, so Muhammad Asad it is! :) This particular translation has been in my desired objects in life eversince I read 'the road to Mecca' and fell in love with the commitment and honesty of Asad sahab's quest. Jazak Allah!
Regarding that Yusuf Ali translation, I have the original old one. The stumbling block is often losing the track in complicated phrases and at times use of old english.
#16 tahir July 08, 2009 17:13
Miss Leenah:
Many thanks for a happy landing after a long time!
Mind you Abdullah Yusuf Ali was once the darling of the KSA but his translation is not the official one now. It has been replaced by the one from Dr Taqi-ud-din Hilali/Dr Muhsin Khan, and which is plagiarised from Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall's but in easy-English! Talk about intellectual honesty and integrity!
So, the eye-opening translation is from Dr Muhammad Asad, available as a cheaper Pak-printed (without an index) version for Rs 750, or as a hard-bound, rather bulky but most beautiful imported print for the equivalent of U$D 40.
Take your pick.
#15 leenah July 08, 2009 15:52
Tahir sahab,
Could you please name the English translation that you have mentioned? Though I like the Yusuf Ali translation that I have but what you have mentioned seems to promise a good porthole to the Light zone. many thanks.
Love this article by you and the comments underneath it are very informative as well. Thank you for refresher course tgh :0)
Always welcome, Ayesha!
There's one problem here, I have TWO Ayeshas in my member's list! You need to stand out--and I don't mean physically like outside a classroom! :))
The most interesting thing about the above interacters is that some of them finally resorted to playing Judas! What good is religion to them?
Another good read brother.... quite researched and nicely explained. Thanks a lot for this post.
Thanks for your comment.
The muck is a lot deeper than you might think. What has 'happened' to Muslims over the centuries cannot be undone overnight.
Its a constant struggle to fight the narrators of tampered 'CORRECT' traditions. There 18 categories of Ahadith that I've counted thus far. Can you say the same about the AYAHs of the Qur'an? No!
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